duckdog310
6 posts
Nov 20, 2004
4:54 PM
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I'm currently playing with an idea with which I will follow through. I want to build (or have built, rather) a tactical rifle that is built by (and using concepts and techniques from) a benchrest point of view. That is, have a gun built by a benchrest builder but geared toward tactical considerations. And I need your help, input and ideas. And your criticism too!
I'm starting with a Remington Model 700 LTR action (parkerized). Its only mod currently is a Badger bolt knob and 8-40 base holes. I've been checking BR websites and am specifically intrigued by Gre-Tan and Bryant. Both seem to be very committed to absolute perfection. Can anyone confirm?
I've seen terms such as truing, bolt lapping, sleeving, bushing and a myriad of additional nomenclature. What should I consider to be done to the action? What is unnecessary? Who should do the work? Do I need a bigger recoil lug?
This rifle will be chamered in .308. I want a stainless barrel in 24" with an approximately 1" muzzle diameter. It will be finished in teflon or another such dulled finish. I will primarily shoot 168 and 175gr bullets out at 100 and 200 yards, with a monthly trip to the 600 yard range. Any suggestions on barrel makers? Installers? Rifling types and twist rates?
That's enough for now. . .once I get this done, I'll post on bottom metal and stock options.
Thanks very much for any info you can contribute.
Matt
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Mntngoat
15 posts
Nov 20, 2004
10:45 PM
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I like the idea. When Jerry Stiller comes out with his M-700 clones next spring, I'm going to be all over one in a repeater based action for the same purpose. I think a 8 or 10 twist will be about perfect. I've had work done by both Mike Bryant and Greg Tannel and could not be happier with either. Both are top notch smiths and I would trust either one with no problem. All my rifles have been smithed by these two and are tack drivers.
Michael
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<*))))>><
Last Edited by Mntngoat on Nov 20, 2004 10:47 PM
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duckdog310
7 posts
Nov 20, 2004
10:54 PM
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Of the two. . .who has the faster turn-around time?
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DANTEC
Charter Member
63 posts
Nov 20, 2004
10:58 PM
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for this type of rifle forum as sniperhide.com is perhaps a batter choice to get to informations
just few point
no need of bull barel or real heavy profile to get accuracy and get loose balance of the rifle , 7/8 at the muzzle is far enought
308 WIN a cartridge name but there us alot of chamber design availbale from the deer hunting SAAMI specs to real BR chamber with tight chamber and neck turn
there is some thread on long-range.com and benchrest.com on 308 chambering family
good shooting
DAN TEC
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duckdog310
8 posts
Nov 20, 2004
11:23 PM
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I placed this thread in this forum specifically to capitalize on the benchrest expertise in the forum. Additionally, I wanted to bridge the gap between "tactical" and "benchrest".
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Ackley Improved
15 posts
Nov 21, 2004
12:16 AM
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Hi duckdog...
Why 308W?? I understand that you always here of 308W tactical rifles, but is there any reason for choosing this caliber?
I have nothing against the 308W... but if you want to keep to a tactical round.... the 300 Winchester Magnum is a nice round. I may suggest a muzzle break though!!
Is it the look of the rifle that you want because if that is the case, get it chambered for the 6mm Br. Excellent at 100/200/300/......1000!! If it doesnt take larger enough pills for your liking go to the 6.5/284!
I think that your muzzle diameter of 1 inch maybe a little to big for a tactical style stock? Have you thought of a "prone" stock. The picture bellow is prone!
What do you think people????
Ackley Improved
Last Edited by Ackley Improved on Nov 21, 2004 12:24 AM
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DANTEC
Charter Member
64 posts
Nov 21, 2004
1:12 AM
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I agree with AI
now a regular 260 REM is far better than a 308 in balistic and recoil with sensible same barrel life n feeding is perfect OAL is 308 same so that works in any 308 mag box ( check Greg Angelius on sniperhide.com or in long-range.com
another important point tactical brand/name seem to be a fashion but that seem to be a real short cut to rename anything tactical
from my taste a tactical is ruggerized rifle built a work in sand /durst /rain /mud and even snow so without sensible part as Jewell's trigger , beautiful costly camo finish ...
so built a bench/tactical is same as built a indy race farm tractor
group size potential is another point no really need to be able or to need a 1/4 moa or less stable / repeatable group accuracy level for a tactical rifle because tactical style shooting is not BR shooting on rest and even if very few tactical ( real enforcement /miltary shooter ) are able to shhot tight group a good 1/2 moa ( no neck turning , no Jewell s is far good enought ) and spend 3000/4000 USD in a rem built rifle seem a "no need" for 1/2 moa usefull accuracy ( camo specila paint doesn t help for accuracy and mil specs doesnt help too )
to built some thing "enought "
I will go
REM action completely recut ( Mike Bryant works is very fine ) WITH Tubbs extractor
a good match barrel as PAC NOR or even Shilen select grade chambred in 260 REM minimum SAAMI chamber /set a GO gauge headspace with near 7/8 at 25 inch barrel ( to get a balanced rifle with barrel long enought to reach 1 K at super sonic velocity )
a MacMillan M40 A3 with only lenghtened pad option ( no need of check piece and other costly option ) ( the most confortable A serie stock and not to heavy , I own all macMillan so I can make selected choice )
a steel trigger guard to avoid light alloy junk REm factory trigger guard ( sunny hill are very well made and less heavy than Badger )
a Timney trigger set at in the 4 /4.2 pounds
a good sling as saddle Turner
cartridge made with Lapua 243 case open in 260 with N165 or 4831 powder and 142 SMK
as Scope a 4.5x14 LR Leupold on strong mount and LAPPED ring )
that surely far enought to win any tactical match
Good shooting
DAN TEC
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DANTEC
Charter Member
65 posts
Nov 21, 2004
4:07 AM
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Additional information
to stay in 0.30 cal , 300 RSUM is very nice and REM700 can be converetd with WSM mag box , 300 RSUM with 175 SMK can easy beat a 308 without too much recoil and without the need of a long action
as steel challenge/tactical I will use 300 RUSM ( for impact energy witch is usefull for impact location in the durst ) or 260 REM for low recoil/low barrel heat , both feed perfect in a REM 700 SHORT , 300 RSUM need 25 inch barrel to deliver real gain in velocity compare to 308 WIN
good shooting
DAN TEC
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Ackley Improved
16 posts
Nov 21, 2004
5:02 AM
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Dantec
Indy race farm tractor.....I like that.. nice one, I giggled when I read that...where can I get one of those tractors!!
That wouldnt be to bad an idea at all the 260 REM. Nice to shoot, low recoil, good barrel life and of all things it will fit in a 308W size magazine/action!
What else could you want.
Duckdog, I think you may have to make a choice of a target rifle, or a tactical rifle. As DANTEC said, a tactical rifle is meant to be ruggered, work in all environments.
You may not want to waste money on a rifle that is niether here nor there. A rifle that just wont track right in the bags wacking 600yd targets, to a rifle that just isnt designed to be a ruggered tactical! I wouldnt like to be carrying a rifle around with a muzzle diameter of 1 inch either! Hit the gym if you plan too!
Sorry if I have blown your hopes.
Actually, I have a story for you....As in do it right the first time! I got a rifle built as a lightgun...Now the caliber is 300 Winchester Magnum.... I thought that I owned and shot a 300WM in a hunting rifle and could cope with it.. so the lightgun in 300WM should be a dream to shoot. Now the truth... 17lbs of 300WM is great to shoot, I admit it was excellent... but when its in the bags and your trying to one hole every shot....17lb 300WM isnt the way to go. Its now nearly twice the weight. The moral of the story is do it right the first time. That is why Im posting about custom actions at the moment..cause I want the very best for the job the first time. EXCELLENT
Cheers
Ackley Improved
Last Edited by Ackley Improved on Nov 21, 2004 5:26 AM
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duckdog310
9 posts
Nov 21, 2004
6:17 AM
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All of your comments are greatly appreciated. Thank you. I guess maybe I didn't communicate my intention. . .or maybe I did and I'm just confused myself! :-)
My goal was to use benchrest ideas, benchrest builders and the APPROPRIATE benchrest components to build the most accurate tactical rifle I could. I suppose I probably pitched this idea as a benchrest/tactical hybrid. . .that's my mistake.
.260. . .hmmmm. I am not familiar at all, but I'm intrigued. How does it compare at relative short range with the .308's accuracy?
Thanks again Gentlemen.
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DANTEC
Charter Member
66 posts
Nov 21, 2004
6:55 AM
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accuracy fact in not a reducted to a cartridge name .
260 REM is a good rifles right built equal any 308 WIn in a good rifle right built
but if you compare a junk M98 miltary rifle in 308 WIN with a top rifle ( as Tubbs 2000 ) in 260 REM that sure the 260 Rem will be far better in accuracy
to compare you first need to sort
cartridge name
chamber name ( 308 SAAMI is not 308 Obermayer or Palma 95 as a 260 REM SAAMI is not a 6.5/08 Panther but that sure you can fire a 308 WIN factory in a 308 Obermayer and a hunting Rem cartridge in a 6.5/08 panther but perhaps accuracy will be not be the same
cartridge quality
surplus 308 from ??? will be be able to get accuracy of carefully 308 handload with top components .
as Benchrest building , nothing mysterical or magic ,just mecanic of square surfaces , matched surfaced , right surfaced quality cutting ..; )
IN USA , a rifle built by a top gunsmith Mike Bryant ( as example ) on a REM action and a MacMillan stock can be equal or will surely better than a "M40 " built by XXX with top adds on the net as we built military sniper rifle for XXX , you just need to check for what you pay
real accuracy or adds and fashion
good shooting
DAN TEC
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Ackley Improved
18 posts
Nov 21, 2004
7:19 AM
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Duckdog
Quick question, what are your intentions for this gun? I see 100/200 and 600 target. Hunting?
Cheers
Ackley Improved
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Jeff
4 posts
Nov 21, 2004
7:22 AM
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DuckDog,
I have a .260, trued remington 700, Hart 1-8" 25" barrel, HS Precision stock, - it will shoot 120 smk 2950 fps & 142 smk 2700 fps - the 120's are very accurate out to app. 600-750 yards and the 142's out to 1000-1200 yards. The recoil is much less than a .308, barrel life is almost as good (I have 2000 rounds fired with no apparant accuracy loss).
Jeff
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flatlander
21 posts
Nov 21, 2004
8:30 PM
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I was so pleased by the accuracy & velocity of my 6BR Improved that I decided to have a Win.M70 in 243 re-built into a light tactical/LR varmint rifle. I bought a new H-S Precision stock, another SS16x42 scope & Leupold PRW rings, and Krieger should be delivering a 28" 8-twist bbl. contoured to match the bbl. channel of the H-S stock to my gunsmith within a couple of weeks. He's going to true the action, then fit & chamber the bbl. I've had the factory trigger adjusted to under 2lbs. for over 25yrs. without mishap, so will leave it in place. The biggest question in my mind is how comfortable the H-S stock will be in prone, especially after I put an extended scope rail with 20-24 MOA of slope on the action. My concern lies in the comb of the stock not being high enough for consistent cheek weld. No doubt there are better stocks available, but I was trying to fit the project into a rather tight budget, and this was the most stable stock I could find for the money. I hope to have the completed rifle in hand by late January, and will post photos ASAP.
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jb1000br
1000yd Editor
56 posts
Nov 22, 2004
10:05 AM
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DD--i am building one in 6br as we speak. It will be a single shot though because HS-precision was unable to get the br feeding with my recommendations--it was working, but not the 100% needed to market it :(
so i am building a tactical single shot BR rifle--figger that one out :D
the BR part will be aided with a flat aluminum attatchment made by my good buddy, and forum member "chet"
it will have an a5 stock, broughton 5c 8tw barrel and jewell trigger--that is all i can say till spring, when you will see it in THE GUN OF THE WEEK ;)
JB
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